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Penn Relays: DMR

This is going to be heavily discussed (I hope) up until the big day and perhaps after, so I figure I should get things started early. There are a fantastic 6 PA teams in this field! The race includes the top 3 indoor 4xMile's in the nation as well as a CBA, St. Benedict's and O'Hara who were 3 of the top DMR teams at Nats. I won't lie to you and say I know a lot about the team's outside of PA.

Obviously CBA will be in the mix for the win as they are year in and year out. They are going to need to push hard to run away from this field, however, because of Ed Cheserek, a potential sub 4 anchor leg. In addition, Tony Russell has proven he can run down CBA out front so don't count him out.

For the sake of discussion on here, I'm going to just take a look at the PA squads in the race and give some analysis on them.

Let's start out with Pennsbury. I've seen very limited results on the Pennsbury guys after their solid indoor season campaign, so I hope they are in solid shape still. If they are Pennsbury is a great sleeper pick in this race. The DMR at Penn is a bit packed on the 1200 leg and if you can set yourself up well on that leg then sometimes your team can surprise people. Think Joey Waddington and CB South a few years back. Connor Harriman is just the lead of leg to do it (assuming they choose not to anchor him which they have yet to do this year). Harriman, if he is on his game, could surprise with a 3:05ish split in this race and set up the relay for success. They have a slew of good 400 guys who will keep them in contention and Liam O'Connell is a very underrated 800 man. I'm a big fan of Sam Webb running gutsy on the anchor. It's tough to imagine Webb will run anything faster than around 4:18 or so, I don't think he quite has the leg speed for it, but I know he will give it a great effort.

Pennsbury's main in conference rivals will be in the race as well: Council Rock North. CRN is an interesting squad as they will have a 2 miler running the lead off in Mac Emery. Emery had a very impressive run indoors at states, mixing it up with the leaders and showing no fear. He was able to move up through the pack but running consistent splits. Hopefully in a crowded Penn field he can still use that tactic and get CRN out front on his leg. At 800m, Rob Simmons is another CRN man who had a breakout race at the state championship. He split around 1:56 going out very, very hard to catch the leaders. Simmons has still yet to launch under 2 minutes in the open 800, but the potential is there. On the anchor is James Zingarini, who has run 4:18 multiple times now in his career and ran a great anchor leg indoors in the DMR. Zingarini will have his hands full in this race filled with guys of his ability. His style of running will really benefit from a competitive anchor leg where the pace will be fast the whole way and it won't be a kicker's race.

Strath Haven was neck and neck with CRN indoors, but can they repeat the feat outdoors? Huemmler must think his team's odds are good because he bailed on the individual mile to chase a fast DMR time with his team, a very admirable decision. But right now, Dylan Butera and company need to step up their game to get Huemmler the stick in contention. Butera ran a very solid indoor 1200m leg but he is going to need to take another step forward to get his team to the front pack. At 800m, Haven has a few guys closing in on the 2 minute barrier, if their leg can dip under it would be a huge lift to their relay chances. At anchor you know what your going to get, Huemmler is a beast who is not afraid of going out hard and trying to chase team's down. He has a 4:12 PR and is the indoor state champ in the mile. If his squad is contention when he gets the baton watch out.

Ultimately, I see these 3 teams being fairly close at Penn, but not quite mixing it up for the win. On the other hand I think there are 3 PA teams that can surprise for the W at Penn ....

Let's take a look first at the boys from O'Hara. In my mind they are the hot team right now, running very solid and carrying a lot of momentum. Kevin James has been a fantastic lead off leg for them throughout the season and has been rolling with a fast 1500 and a 9:15 3200m! I don't know if that will translate directly into his speed, but it should be at least somewhat beneficial. Boyle and Belfatto are coming off solid 800m PRs and Belfatto has already proven he can split 1:55ish in a national caliber race. That leaves Dan Savage who has run some solid 5k and 32 times as of late, but hasn't moved up to the mile since Nats (unless he anchors the team's DMR at the track classic which won easily). Savage split 4:16 that race, a really impressive time that I wasn't expecting. To keep O'Hara out front when he gets the stick he is going to need another carry of that caliber or faster. I wouldn't be surprised if Savage gets the baton in first place and that is going to make for a tough job on the anchor leg.

Now we look at LaSalle who has been rolling for quite some time with a healthy Coyle back to anchor the relay. They won a pair of relays down South and then returned home for some solid races back in PA. It was nothing mind blowing, but Stone and Coyle both ran similar 800m marks to a year ago at the same meet in a slower race. That may indicate that both are ready to repeat their mammoth splits from Penn a year ago. If Coyle and Stone can run 3:04 and 4:12 they are in very good position  Magee has had a bit of ups and downs but his 1:55 indoors is still fresh in my mind. I think he might have even been able to go faster with the right competition. I don't know if he will be able to hit that mark at Penn, but if he can run anywhere close to it, LaSalle is set up very nicely behind the two big guns on the relay.

Lastly there is Henderson, a team always discussed on this blog with a lot of potential to have their breakout DMR here at Penn. Henderson's big gun is Tony Russell who split 4:11y indoors. Any split under 4:10 would be close to the fastest split in the field (fastest besides Cheserek) and would be a truly amazing accomplishment for the Junior. His teammates are going to have to set him up to hit that mark and still be competitive. Barchet will be the big leg. He dropped his 1200 time nicely at the windy DTW meet so there is clearly potential there to break out. He is going to have to get out hard and mix it up out front to set up Russell on the anchor. Moy has made nice strides as of late in the 800m. He isn't the big name that Chaborek is and doesn't have the big PRs, but Moy could be a 1:56 guy in the right race. He ran 1:58 open just recently and has a great group of training partners. The Henderson team hasn't been on this Penn Relays DMR stage as of late, but they did just fine at NBIN not too long ago so I doubt they are intimidated by the big stage.

Ultimately I guess I should probably make a prediction so I can get bashed later for being wrong but it at least gives us something fun to talk about for the next couple weeks. Here is the order of my PA teams:
LaSalle
O'Hara
Henderson
Pennsbury
CRN
Strath Haven

We will see what goes down, but hopefully PA takes the Gold, gets at least one guy under 4:11 and puts 3 teams under 10:10.

38 comments:

  1. Here is how it may shake out with decent weather:
    1200- Stone-3:03.2, James-3:04.0, Barchet-3:05.2
    400- LaSalle-51.0, O'Hara-51.5, WCH-50.5
    800 Magee-1:56.2, Belfatto-1:55.1, Moy-1:55.9
    1600 Coyle-4:11.2, Savage-4:12.2, Russell-4:10.3

    Totals=Lasalle-10:01.6, O'Hara-10:03.0, Henderson-10:02.2. All 3 teams have the ability to take a little time off at each spot. If it's a still day, any of those teams could threaten the meet record.

    BTW-CBA should be 3:09, 49.2, 1:53.2, 4:15.0 for 10:06.4. It would be nice to put 3 PA teams in front of CBA and St. Benedicts(they don't have the 1200 leg and Cheserek doesn't seem ready to run 4:00).

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    1. I hate to be a doubter but I see Savage as more of a longer distance guy, I'm very skeptical about his ability to run 4:12

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    2. unfortunately, i agree that these splits are pretty optimistic

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    3. Gran-Gran says you can do anything you put your mind to

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    4. 3 PA teams under at 10:03 or better???? None of the winners the past 6 years have broken 10:07. Perhaps one of them may break 10:05, but the other two will be in the low 10:10ish.... it's just sooooo difficult to break 10:10, let alone 10:05 and it would take a perfect race from every individual to accomplished that. I see Strath around 10:20ish, CRN perhaps low 10:20 and Pennsbury 10:25ish. Either way, PA is well represented.

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    5. Why do you think CRN and SH won't break 10:20 if they ran 10:20 indoors with both mile legs on the double?

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    6. I wasn't certain about the status of SH 1200 leg. They most certainly can break 10:20 if they are all healthy. They can go somewhere between 10:17 to 10:24. Huemler will have some ground to make up. I see SH like Great Valley last year when they were anchored by Ned Willig. I see CRM around 10:18 to 10:23 as well. I thought everyone ran well at indoors so hopefully they can duplicate that effort. Again, all 4 legs must be on top of their game to get below 10:20.

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  2. Here's how I think it'll go for PA teams

    1200

    Stone- 3:02.1
    James- 3:05.3
    Barchet- 3:08.1

    400

    Boyle- 50.5
    LaSalle- 51.9
    Hall- 50.8

    800

    Belfatto- 1:55.2
    Magee- 1:55.9
    Moy-1:56.9

    1600

    Savage- 4:16.4
    Coyle- 4:11.0
    Russell- 4:12.1

    It's hard to predict times because it's so packed and anything can happen, but I think best case scenario this happens. I was cautious with Savage since this will be his first 1600 of the season and he really hasn't run anything else that'll show me his speed. Stone was a bit ambitious he showed promise in his 800. I'd love to see Logue in a 1200. I think he'd break 3.

    -RTJ

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  3. Savage ran the 4x8 at coatesville this weekend. I had him about 2:04

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  4. Tom hasn't dropped any impressive times at all in the mile all year, sorry but i have to pass on him running a 4:11.... Stone isnt running 3:02 in the 1200 either, I think best case scenario he runs a 3:04,yeah he has a good 800 time but his mile times don't show 3:02 potential to me, it would take a time much better than 4:18 mile to translate to a 3:02. I think all of the other splits are right though, tony should probably be better in the mile when its over a month since he's run his pr, probably around 4:10ish. He's racing against PA's best competition this friday so if he does bad you can disregard this post, but i'm still kinda surprised people think he's worse than Tom still....

    I hope that everyone from this state performs well, but to be honest, Henderson and Ohara are the only teams who have gone out and run the times to show that they can do times close to 10 minutes or under, if I were to base the winner off of who is currently running fast instead of who "could" run fast under such and such circumstances, Henderson pulls out the win, even without chaborek. The only reason i don't see ohara beating henderson is because its really going to come down to the mile, and unless ohara can pull out a 6-7 second lead on henderson by the anchor leg I think tony will run them down. O'hara will trump henderson on all other legs but the mile, and thats really what decided the fate of Dmr's in most races. I expect multiple rebuttals, lets get this discussion going guys.

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    1. Coyle may not have dropped any impressive times yet, but to be honest I don't think any of the other DMR anchors have either. With that said, I think it could come down to a duel between Russel and Coyle as I dont see Savage having the leg speed to stick with them or with a big enough leed getting the baton. In regard to the projected splits for the 800 leg posted above, I think Belfatto could drop a pretty sick time, but I don't really see Moy on the level of Belfatto and Magee. We'll see though, I think there could be some big suprises / upsets at Penn. Don't count out CRN or Strath Haven

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    2. Coyle and Stone have dropped 1:54 and 1:55 ... LaSalle won the state title at indoor states despite Coyle's sickness and Coyle and Stone's doubling ... LaSalle ran a sub 7:50 4x8 indoors, one of the best times in the nation ... Then LaSalle won in a 10:17 down at Virginia, the fastest time of any PA squad this outdoor season and doubled guys back for a 7:56 ... Last year (which doesn't mean much) LaSalle rose to the occasion at Penn with a 10:10 and they return all their distance legs from last year ... Coyle is also the defending outdoor state champ at 1600m

      I think O'Hara has been the most consistent in terms of putting up solid marks throughout indoors and outdoors, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a big day, they just need someone to step up and be a superstar like Tony and Tom have been over the past year

      As for Henderson, they have the most potential to run fast because they have yet to have everything click in a DMR ... If Barchet sets the tone early and Moy continues to break out Russell will bring it home ... Russell on the anchor makes the Henderson squad very scary if they keep him in the mix

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    3. ^^I think a 4:11 full mile is very impressive. In an open race that would've been an indoor state record... savage's 4:16 isn't a joke either, its more than what Tom has done. You can't win Penn relays in a kickers race, the pace will be blazing fast and that will only help Russell and savage.

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  5. Whenever sheTrain comes back...Kelsey Potts, the freshman from Mt. Lebanon, went 5:03 in a dual meet on the 17th...she's legit

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  6. Warrior Invite from Henderson Performance list: http://runccrs.com/results/warrior-invitational-performance-list/

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  7. The mile at SHIP looks like a district final todaro,groh,shettler,coburn,kunzweiler,cather,WOW looks like 414-417 wins this...

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  8. Coyle has run solid this season. His mile in Virginia was a 4:20 I believe which is faster than Savage/Russell thus far and then he drops a 1:55 open. Coyle can run a fast pace, he isn't just a kicker. Last year showed that when he dropped a 4:12.

    Speaking of kickers... Penn Relays is certainly a kickers race. Yes, there are people like Cheserek who go hard from the gun, but he's an outlier. Most of the time there's a front pack and no one makes a big move until the last 600 meters or so. It's a fast pace kickers race, but a kickers race nonetheless.

    I put Stone at 3:02 because last year he was at 3:05 and this year his 800 is looking even better than before... so I'm assuming his shape is even better as well, along with the competition he'll have.

    I do expect O'Hara to come last of the three, but I think it will be a close race between the three with LaSalle leading the whole time.

    SheTrain will return soon... thanks for the updates! After this weekend when pledging ceases, I will be back. I may even try and write something down tonight.

    -RTJ

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  9. Check out some cool times...

    http://runccrs.com/results/warrior-invitational-results-2013/

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    1. The wind picked up a ton right before the 800's. Wind was 25-30 mph

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  10. That was a crazy 1600. Brutal wind. Damn good meet!

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  11. Great job to the Ben Ritz, it's really unfortunate (for us) that he won't be at PIAA States. I would love to see him speed up the mile like crazy. I guess we will have to wait until the Henderson invitational, distance festival, or nationals to see another blazing time from him.

    I don't know about you guys, but I was blown away most by Kevin Moy. He stepped up and beat not only Collins, but Barchet too! Their 4x1600 is looking dirty right about now. I'd actually like to see Moy run a 1200. If he beat Barchet in a mile and 800 then most likely he'll beat him in the 1200. Obviously people will say Barchet had a bad race, but even on a good race was he beating 4:22? His PR open is 4:26 so...

    I hope this showed people how Jack isn't to be forgotten. As of now, Huemmler > Russell and Coyle right now. In Coyle's defense, he hasn't had the chance to battle in an elite mile like the rest of them though.

    Kevin James speed in his legs before his 1200 at Penn. 1:59 is a solid time for him and it definitely gives me some confidence that he is ready to run fast. All of the other legs have shown they are ready to go in their respective legs, except Savage. I know he has the base to run a solid mile, but does he have the speed at this point in the season? I wish he ran an 800 or something.

    Great Valley Relays should tell what kind of shape Haven is in. They will most likely run the 4x800 and I think they will run a solid time. Around 7:55 I think (1:55, 1:58, 2:00, 2:01 + change). This is assuming Butera is healthy. He seems to get hurt a lot and since he hasn't run an open race and Haven hasn't stacked anything yet, I'm thinking he may be injured.

    -RTJ

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    1. Barchet ran 4:19 or 4:20 for a full mile on their indoor relay at nationals.

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    2. That's true but it was also a split. Split times are faster than open, even if it's lead off. Also, that was indoors, this is outdoors. Moy may be in better shape than Barchet now.

      -RTJ

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    3. I wasn't surprised by Moy's race. I expected someone from WCH to drop down to Barchet's level by the end of indoor, so my prediction was off a month or so. RTJ, you and I went back on forth on Moy/Stratman/G Barchet back in the mid January posts.

      I hear what your saying about moving Moy to the 1200 but assuming Barchet just had a bad race, I wouldn't do it. Barchet has been their 1200 guy, and he has a recent 3:10 split in very windy conditions at DTW a couple of weeks ago. That 1200 distance is such a rare one that experience really matters. It's too risky to make that change at this point even if those two guys are closer to equal. I'd keep Barchet as the 1200 guy where he's comfortable and let Moy ride the confidence to a 1:55-1:56ish 800 split at Penn Relays.

      - RJJL

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    4. To RTJ-Split times are not faster if you lead off if you know how to take split. Why do you think they count leadoff splits in swimming as state/US/world records?

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  12. State College boys take home 3, 4, and 7th places at SHIP. Looking like a nice relay setup, considering that the wind was there today and Cather wasn't fresh as he ran the 1600.

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    1. Cather is supposedly hurt too. He needs to stay healthy for SC to have any chance.

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  13. Brehm dropped a 1:54 already... and he's only a sophomore! He may have to slip into the state title conversation.

    Anyone have Pennridge's 4x800/4x400 splits? Impressive that they are at 3:18 already.

    -RTJ

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  14. 4x8:
    Masagi: 1:59
    Bruder: 2:00
    Scuhlberger: 2:01
    Logue: 1:54

    4x4:
    Logue: 49.4
    Kim: 51
    Class:48.8
    Stenderowicz:48.6

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  15. Butera hasn't run all outdoor. I'm getting the impression that he's injured.

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  16. Call me crazy but the DMR at Penn has a chance of teams breaking 10, If teams are on and that 1200 pace is killer, the milers should be set up to run fast times

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    1. These races almost always are:
      A) Tactical anchor leg (last year)
      B) Get out too slow in the 1200 leg
      C) Windy/Bad conditions
      D) At least one leg doesn't have the 'A' effort that day.

      DMR's are the most unpredictable of any relay on what could happen, but they are the most predictable at the same time: It won't go perfect.

      These teams don't have enough custion to hit sub 10. They have at best 10:03ish potential in my mind, and that being said, you put them at sub 10:10 predictions for Penn.

      --ForrestCRN

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    2. It looks like the conditions should be decent. LaSalle and CBA look like the teams to beat. No other team has a match for Stone. He is the best #2 guy out there. CBA has great 400 and 800 legs. O'Hara is solid. Henderson could be great but is flawed. LaSalle should get the stick right behing CBA and then Coyle will outkick there anchor. The only chance Henderson has is if they slow in the 3rd 1/4 and Russell rolls up and finishes. He's shown the ability to roll up, but not has not been a great finisher. Huemmler could run the fastest mile of anyone if he's in the hunt at all.

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  17. Olympian alan webb anchored a team that went 9:59.66. His mile split was 4:04. I dont expected any of the pa team to go under 10.

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  18. does any pa team have a chance in 4x8

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  19. Anyone notice that usually when Etrain says a runner is underrated the guy like immediately steps up with an impressive PR.

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  20. will you do a prediction for the 4x800?

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  21. GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF PA.....

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