The Performance List is now available here: http://pa.milesplit.com/meets/131620/attachment/247461
So what do we have to look forward to at this meet? Well the 4x8 here is usually less than exciting because most teams choose to stack the individual events. We do have a few teams with solid credentials like Red Lion and Twin Valley who are both seeded at 8:06. We will see what teams they choose to put on the track.
The 1600m has a very solid string of entrants. Right now the top seed is Curt Jewett fresh off his big Penn Relays mile. He will take on PA's other stud from the individual race at Penn, 3k champion Max Norris, who will try lower his 1600m PR down closer to Jewett's. There are plenty of signs that Norris has the wheels to run fast as long as he keeps his head in it, but Jewett has been on a roll lately, he will be very tough to beat the rest of the way. Also in the race is Andrew Stone from LaSalle, running a bit of over distance as the 800m seems to be his specialty. However, if he can hang in there during a fast paced race, his kick will be dangerous. There is potential here for a big breakthrough. James Zingarini of Council Rock North will be in attendance. The man is very accomplished at 1 mile and will be in his most competitive mile he has run since indoor states and probably will be the fastest paced 1600m event he will get all year. He is due for 4:15ish and this is his big chance.
The race is loaded with talent beyond this front group including Steve Yannacone and Ken Leidal, two guys who have been paired off often on this blog because of there similar return from injuries and there similar potential. Both guys may be running a bit off their best event (8 for Steve, 32 for Ken) but both are coming off very strong performances last weekend. I am really excited to see both of these guys mix it up. Leidal could definitely be around 4:15 if things click right. The race will also include Jack Magee of LaSalle who dropped a 1:55 at Penn and was a key member of the championship relay. Now relay season is all but over for LaSalle so it is time for Magee to show he can get to states as an individual again in the 16.
Bobby Hill of Wellsboro is a AA sleeper, fresh off his close finish with Barrett Kemp where he ran 4:22. Tom Seykora is also a sleeper in the AA realm out of Devon Prep. He just PRd at 800m. A few District One guys will look to shine as well including Eric Stratman and Connor Linse as well as Curtis Watro and Jonathan Perlman. Perlman is my big sleeper here. He had a killer stretch run this indoors and really came on strong. I haven't seen anything from him outdoors yet so I am optimistic that he can drop into the mid to low 4:20s at this meet. Matt Sankey from Daniel Boone has a lot of potential in this race as well, leading a couple D3 guys with strong credentials like Ethan Gatchell and Ben Mueller of Red Lion and Warwick respectively.
Looking down the list a bit farther the 16 is still loaded with talented guys like Pat Hopkins of Methacton, Trey Crump of West Chester East, Nathan Willis of Friend's Central and Josh Pardoe of Red Lion. All have run between 4:30 and 4:28 before and could be on the verge of a solid time drop. Crump definitely looks dangerous after a solid 32 last week.
In the 800m, LaSalle's Andrew Stone is entered again, looking to pull of a great double back victory. The 16 is likely his focus but it would be a nice confidence builder to come back with a solid 1:53-1:55 if competition is good. And competition should be good. Jeff Wiseman, 3rd at indoor states, will look to return in his first ultra competitive 800m of this outdoor season. He has a great shot at 1:53 or faster. Billy Caldwell and Kevin Moy flank him as a couple of guys who are right on verge of 1:55ish performances. As mentioned, I'm a big fan of Caldwell and I'd love to see him perform well at this meet. Caleb Gatchell of Red Lion is a potential sleeper at this meet. If things break right for him, he can go out and win the race.
A couple of other guys are seeded high looking for big PRs including Dave Garton, James Chappell of CB South and Dan Ferrairolo of Malvern Prep. Garton has the most potential, having already run 1:55 before on more than one occassion. But Chappell of CB South is most interesting to me. CB South has had a lot of really strong 800m guys over the years and maybe Chappell is next. He doesn't have the open times to back it up, but clearly his coach has a lot of confidence that he can go out there and drop a big PR. CB South has 3 other guys seeded at 1:59. Should be interesting to see how well their 4x8 stacks up after this weekend is done.
Also in the realm of sleeper is Alex Nole. He ran away from a field of 2 flat guys last weekend with his 1:56.95 mark and now finally gets good competition at this Henderson meet. He has the potential to really drop a big PR if he can hang on to this fast paced race. Pennsbury's Liam O'Connell has been on my sleeper list for a while now. He and Alek Sauer will show their stuff at this meet in the 800m. James Zingarini and Curt Jewett will double back from the 1600m. I'm not expecting much, but neither have very fast 800m PRs so this is a great chance to double back in 1:56 and show off some great range.
The race is deep with guys like Billy Wolffe, Ryan Markle, Colin Meyers, Jordan Jackson, Colton Snyder, and Jason Hall all in the race with chances to drop nice PRs. Abington has a slew of guys in it with the potential to drop a big PR. They can really show off the talent they have for their 4x8 relay this weekend as well. Jordan Jackson is a big sleeper. He is a very solid AA guy and so too is Colton Snyder. Going down the list a ways Patrick Grant and Eric Diestelow are entered from LaSalle and West Chester East. Both should be fun to watch run. Grant is also listed in the 1600m, he is a sleeper there as well.
One thing is clear about the 800m at this meet. After this weekend, a lot of teams will have really shown their hand in terms of the 4x8. Shoulda waited to make my post. Dang.
And finally, of course, we get to the marquee event of the Henderson track classic. The quest to break 9 minutes as on and folks, quite frankly, I think there is a great chance it happens this weekend. The field includes the following studs:
Brendan Shearn
Tony Russell
Sami Aziz
Mac Emery
Ross Wilson
Connor Harriman
Sam Williams
Conner Quinn
Ben Ritz
Brendan Billotta
Sam Webb
Reiny Barchet
Lyle Wistar
Aaron Valerosa
Sam Ritz
Dominic Deluca
Chris Cummings
A pair of 9:20 guys from Delaware
Now I'm certainly a little worried that Shearn, Quinn, Williams and Wilson are running this 32 right after running really hard races at Penn Relays over 3k, but I'm super excited they are not passing on this chance. I know that the pace will be fast, it will just a matter of who can drop it down. I thought for sure I'd see Coyle in this line up as he wasn't entered in any other individual events, but he is out of the line up this weekend. Any reason why? Would have loved to have seen him in this race, with his finishing kick, if he could hang on to a fast pace he could be under 9. Instead we will see if Russell, Shearn and Aziz can help hammer the pace and help get these guys to big PRs.
In the end the guy who may end up stealing the show is Ben Ritz. He had an off day at Penn and I'm sure he comes into this race hungry and ready to drop time. He has a 9:19 PR now to his name and he just needs to come out and hang on to a fast pace and kick. Harriman too may be a sleeper, I'm not sure he can win, but he has a great kick of his own.
This will be a big chance for Tony Russell to come up big and get a quality win over a state caliber field in the 32. He has been doing a decent amount of speed training as of late so he should be ready to close and handle a fast opening couple laps. I'm super pumped to see this race, it is very deep and filled with talented guys. Too many to even talk about over such a small window.
Going to have to watch the race and find out! If anyone hears any live results or anything comment them up!
Good luck to everyone this weekend!
Is there only one heat for each distance race (with 70-80 runners), or are there several heats?
ReplyDeleteThe 1600 had three heats last year I believe. I have no clue on the 3200 because the last two years it's been postponed due to thunder storms. The weather looks great for tomorrow.
DeleteI'm actually kind of annoyed at the 3200. I wish you could only put your season best (3k conversions as well), not your PR or what you THINK you're going to run. Depending on how many people they're putting in the hot heat Wilson could be screwed. No offense to the people that were seeded like that, it's just always been a pet peeve of mine, especially when I was racing.
ReplyDelete-RTJ
I agree, i hate when coaches seed kids at times they havent run yet, there should be a rule against that
DeleteI hear you, but just to clarify, it's not what 'you' think you will run, it's what 'your coach' thinks you will run. Don't blame the runner, the coaches submit the times and many overestimate. But you do make a valid point. Hopefully the meet directors weed through that and keep it honest.
Delete-RJJL
Guarantee Wilson will make the fast heat, strings will be pulled if he isn't
DeleteWilson is going to talk to Coach K to see if he can get in, depending on how big the heat is, since he's put in at his technical PR, as is Emery.
DeleteJoey Logue ran 1:52 tonight on 55 high to 56 high back to back 400m splits provided by CRN's Brian Arita (who had a solid 9:59 3200 PR) Brophy ran 9:47 I believe in his first 3200 which gets him the District Standard.
--ForrestCRN
Will McDermott, Bonner - 9:14.40 at Delco's.
ReplyDeleteWilson is in the fast section. 2 sections of boys and girls in the 3200. 3 girls and 4 boys in the 1600. 5 each in the 800. Also the elite 800s are going to be super fast. Robbie Andrews, Mike Rutt, Owen Dawson and others in the men's race. Latavia Thomas, Sheila Reid and others in the women's race. They're looking for 51, 1:17 for the men and 58, 1:29 for the women.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry if I made it sound like the runners did that because you're very right, it's the coaches that do it and they wildy overestimate sometimes. Sometimes they're spot on.
ReplyDeleteKevin James, O'Hara - 9:13.98
Adam Bodine, Haverford- 9:22.98
-RTJ
It should be pointed out that Ethan Gatchell is only a sophomore. He has a lot of potential moving forward.
ReplyDeleteMax Norris - 4:11 or 4:12, shadowed Jewett, fast pace early - approx. 61/2:03/3:08 strong finish.
ReplyDelete4:12.73 is what milesplit just tweeted, thank you very much for this update! if anyone has more post em up!
ReplyDelete4:16/1:59 double for Zingarini, Jewett was 4:17.
DeleteWiseman apparently 1:52 low and 1:56ish for Sauer. PB's 4x8 might be sick, depending on what Harriman does.
--ForrestCRN
3200 Results (flash) -- Mile went out in 4:35
ReplyDelete1. Shearn - 9:04high
2. Russell - 9:06 (was with Shearn till 150 and after a big kick by Shearn he turned it off a bit). Gotta finish through that line
3. Ritz - 9:07.9 (blazing last 800)
4. Wilson - 9:08.0
5. Barchet - 9:09high
6. Quinn - 9:13
7. Webb - 9:14 (He and Kev James battling for Best SO, this class is SICK)
8? Harriman - 9:19high -- He's a big end of the season guy. I think he'll be 9:05 at states or districts if it's a good day.
Emery- 9:36
--ForrestCRN
What the hell happened to Russell after the race? He was being carried over to the trainer on the field and he did not look good at all. I really hope PA didn't just lose one of our state's big guns. Crazy race all together for everyone, the pace was slow for the first mile but everyone came to race during the second. Big props to Russell for trying to bring the time down on the second mile, it would be a tragedy for this to bring an end to his outdoor season when things just started to look good for him. Shearn impressed the hell out of me, that was an amazing race by him
DeleteBrent Kennedy went 9:13 at Baldwin and doesn't even crack the top 10 times in PA this year
ReplyDeleteMust be something in the water. Crazy, fast times at Henderson & Baldwin. Russell looked ok when I saw him a while after his 32.
DeleteEthan Martin 9:14 low and Colin Martin 9:14 high. NA Sophomore Matt McGoey ran a 9:23 for an uncontested 4th place.
DeleteI was glad to see Brent running well. I think he had an injury over the winter and has run sparingly outdoor this year. 9:13 and 1 second win over Martin should give him a huge confidence boost.
DeleteAlso, both Martin brothers ran well. Ethan killed the 4:17 full mile to beat Smathers. His time converts to a 4:15.7 for 1600m. Thats the 2nd faster time of the day between Henderson and Baldwin from a guy many (wrongly) considered to be a pure 3200/ XC guy. It also had to take a bit out of him in the 3200, and he still ran a 9:14 again (about equivalent to his 3k PR's). Also his brother Collin is a stud and just keeps improving. If he stays healthy and keeps his injuries behind him... wow look out.
If anyone needs it spelled out for the McGoey (NA) is the real deal and a complete stud. Even with the ridiculous depth he could be a force at the Ship (haha, get it, championSHIP at the SHIP?).
Also this blog really focuses on the guys aspect of running. Just a few shout out to the ladies. First, Courtney Smith threw down another awesome 32 at Henderson. Secondly, Brianna Schwartz. Wow. First she runs 4:50 for a FULL mile (4:49.0 ish for a 1600), then shows the wheels with a 2;13 to win by 3 seconds. I always thought of her as a 16 girl that could run 32. Turns out she has some wheels too! Congrats on that! Also its awesome to see Shannon Malone in the results again. While she was a bit over shadowed by Schwartz in the mile she put in a solid 4:54: that's faster than her older sister Margo ever ran, if I recall. Maybe she can claim a state championship too. After that she came back with another solid race, a 10:45 3200. Not a bad day.
8,16,32 records are going down this year....
ReplyDeleteDepth in distance races doesn't translate to broken records... None of the records are going to be broken because no on has broken 1 52 for 800, 4 10 for 1600 or 9 for 3200 yet with less than a month left in the season
ReplyDeleteVery good point.
DeleteI saw Norris run Penn Relays and Henderson and he's a lock for sub-9:00 this season.
ReplyDelete8, 16, and 32 records are not going down this year. Mallon was at 1:49 at this point and Magaha already broke the record at this point. He was at 1:51 by april 13th-ish and he coasted the last 50 meters. That record won't go down. 1600M would require someone to be at 4:08 by this point. Max Norris probably isn't running it at States, idk about Russell, Ritz isn't even in PIAA so that kills his chances in my opinion. That leaves Huemmler and Coyle to do it. Coyle is a racer so he won't be taking out the pace and Huemmler won't make the mistake again of letting Coyle sit and kick like last year, he will be tactical, so that record won't be going down. 3200 is 8:49... that's a 15 second drop from our top dog Shearn. States/Nationals will be way too hot to do it and he won't kill himself at districts (even if he did he'd be soloing it anyway) so... that's done. If the 3200 was going to be broken, tonight would have been the night.
ReplyDeleteI do think that great times will be posted though, like 1:50, sub 4:10, and sub 9!
I was amazed when I saw the mile and 3200. I knew it would be fast, but this fast is insane. I don't know how the talent can spike up so much in a year, but good for them. I wish O'Hara was in on this 3200, I'd love to see what some of them could do.
P.S.- Margo ran a 4:53 her senior year at States. I think she got like third or something. She won her junior year (great race). It's good to see her sister so close though.
-RTJ
True, I forgot about Margo's 4:53.15 as I was just looking at the mile times (4:55.0 Mile; 4:53.1 1600)
DeleteShannon 4:54.5 converts to under 4:53.15 (Margo's time) as you have to subtract about 1.7-1.8s to get to 1600 from the mile. I mean at that point it semantics; both are very fast and have produced similar times (which was my original point).
Henderson has another junior sub 4:20, Eric Stratman adds to the 5 Henderson milers sub 4:23, 5 of them being juniors.
ReplyDeleteHenderson had 2 juniors sub 9:10 and another sub 9:30, then their other junior Kevin moy ran 1:55 flat in the open 800, and eric stratman at 4:19... Kevin moy could be right behind Russell in a mile, I think they'll have more than enough potential to all run an average of 4:16 at nationals. How many guys did they have qualify for districts in the 2 mile at that meet? It has to be over 5 or 6 guys total at this point. Only 1 of them is a senior.
ReplyDeleteThey're like a D-II college, it's ridiculous.
DeleteIn my mind, Henderson just became the distance powerhouse of the. To have 2 sub 9:10s is insane, but to have 4 sub 4:20 (including splits) and a 4:22 in Moy (who i think can run faster) AND 7 runners hit the district time, that's insane. Especially since Chaborek isn't in that (so unfortunate that he gets hurt so often, especially since it's his senior year). I think they will win the 4xmile at nationals this year and next year if they go hot and keep up this intensity.
ReplyDeleteBarchet-Moy-Stratman-Russell would be the line up I'd go with.
I feel like I don't give Henderson enough credit, but they definitely deserve it.
-RTJ
That was a huge race out of Barchet. He seemed to be a little stagnant as of late so to drop a big time PR of 9:08 yesterday was very impressive.
DeleteSometimes lost in the shadow of the other guys is Collins who ran a strong 9:26 PR. This is a guy with a 4:24 1600 (and probably a faster split somewhere) who rarely gets mentioned. Then they've got guys developing in Knapp and Waltz, who would probably already be stars on most other teams.
The scary thing is they're just about all back next year except Rimkis & Chaborek. The expectations will be high in XC but their depth can keep ego's in check and their coach does a great job of keeping them humble from the hype of guys like me. - RJJL
A lot of talk about Henderson, but how about the Unionville Girls 3200m runners!!! They hold 4 of the top 11 times in the STATE right now, absolutely sick.
ReplyDelete1. 10:29.08 Courtney Smith Unionville
2. 10:45.75 Eliza Lukens-Day Germantown Friends School
3. 10:45.91 Shannon Malone North Hills
4. 10:48.88 Olivia Young Unionville
5. 10:50.30 Kara Steinke Methacton
6. 10:50.51 Brianna Schwartz Shaler Area
7. 10:51.52 Mady Clahane Cumberland Valley
8. 10:52.11 Emily Fisher Unionville
9. 10:53.69 Tessa Mundell Governor Mifflin
10. 10:53.90 Elizabeth Chikotas Saucon Valley
11. 10:57.14 Anne Birkenmaier Unionville
She-train, where are you? I mean no disrespect to the girls but this is a blog primarily dedicated to male runners, right? It's kind of a buzz-kill when someone hi-jacks the thread to hype the girls.
Deleteweekend recap?!!
ReplyDeleteWell for some reason I couldn't reply to the above comment "They're like a D II college". Henderson is good, but they wouldn't compete with most D3 teams. After watching 8 guys in the last distance event of the day, most of them on the double or triple going 15:04 or under for 5k on the track. Henderson wouldn't be competing.
ReplyDeleteThey've got a really great shot at top 3 in the nation next year and might be as good as that Coatesville team of '06, but they're not a DII team for sure. My boy J$ goes to Lock Haven, Henderson is nothing like LH. If you want to use comparisons, keep them at the HS lvl.
--ForrestCRN
Henderson would beat Muhlenberg.
DeleteHenderson is like a college because they are doing college training. How many Henderson guys do you see out there kicking butt at the next level? I'm sure most of their guys have trouble knocking off their PRs from high school. Lefebure is the only guy I could think of who is at the same level as high school, but he really isn't a product of the Henderson system as much because he is not a high mileage type of guy.
DeleteThat being said most D3 schools would take care of Henderson in an XC dual meet. Muhlenberg as built right now certainly would not but Haverford would demolish them. They have 3 guys under 14:30 already this year and one under 14 flat.
Haverford also the 2nd best d3 school in the nation, argument is invalid
DeleteHenderson runs less millage than most top level distance runners in the state
DeleteCollege coaches know the deal.
DeleteWhat deal is that?
DeleteLol... you're saying Haverford is the 2nd best D3 school in the nation so it's invalid... Henderson is one of the best high school distance squads in the nation. It's all fair game. That being said, who cares about that stuff. Until they have been proven as a legit dynasty (like CBA, Don bosco, etc) let's keep the talk to high school
ReplyDelete-RTJ
I'm gonna disagree with you on the dynasty part. Comparing Bosco and CBA to public schools probably isn't fair. Yet over the last 12 years Henderson has made states XC 10 times, with 9 top-5 XC finishes including 3 second place finishes and 4 championships. That's a legit dynasty in my book. - RJJL
DeleteThat's an elite program. Not a Dynasty. A Dynasty would be winning XC states 8 out of 9 years in a row... oh that's CR. And then they have continued as an elite program after losing half of their school due to a split.
DeleteHenderson is one of the top 3 to 4 programs in the nation no question in my mind and this could be the start of the Dynasty, but they aren't there yet.
--ForrestCRN
Yeah right. If the W Chester schools were combined like CR was it'd have been total dominance by W Chester.
Delete"And then they have continued as an elite program after losing half of their school due to a split." So if a split school is a handicap then how does henderson do it with three schools in their district?
DeleteIts funny how CR was only dominant because the school used to be freaking hugeeeee!!!!!! I'm pretty positive that both council rock schools are bigger than Henderson even though they are separate. Im surprised North Penn isn't winning every state meet, give those 4000+ students to Kevin kelly and he'd make a team that was unbeatable. Kinda like Henderson is looking next year with a school where there's probably no more than 1200 or so students because of the other 3 schools.
DeleteYou heard it here first boys, its not a dynasty unless Forrest went to that school. Even you have to admit that it should be a crime for the cr school to have been so big, "dynasty", more like "the effects of overpopulation in public high school sports programs"
DeleteWhen a school is huge there's still the same limited roster spots for the football/soccer teams etc. So more talented kids who get cut there turn to XC and a few find they are very good runners. Being a large school has the dual benefit of both a bigger population and more athletes available for XC.
DeleteWell I believe this is a blog, and the nature of blogs is to share opinions based no the topic, so I shared my opinion.
DeleteHenderson is the top distance program in PA and has had the most success over the past decade. If that's how you define a dynasty, then call it a dynasty. I was looking for constant victories vs constant success, cause many programs such as NA and North Hills have produced some unreal talents and teams. Yet they don't get any hype due to the D1 dominant views on the blog.
In my opinion we are seeing the beginning of Henderson's dynasty now. And I'm not saying that in terms of lack of success in the past. This team now is reaching a higher caliber level.
Also in terms of school size, coaching has a ton to do with it also along with who goes out for the team and how much work the kids are willing to put in. Schools of 5,000 some students doesn't mean anything if nobody goes out for sports. Something to be said for the nature of the team and the types of kids who will go out for distance running. Henderson has created the culture of running in the school, which is fantastic.
So overpopulatin in a public high school sports program means nothing at all. I was talking to a guy on my team who went to a school of 5000 kids in NYC. They didn't have a football team though because nobody went out for the team. Sports weren't a priority in his school, yet they had 5000 kids. By your logic they would win every state title. There are far more factors at play.
Altoona was a Dynasty school in the 60s and Allegheny in the 70's and I'd argue as well from '08-'11. They had some fantastic years. It's going above and beyond that makes a dynasty. Yes, of course I'm bias towards CR since I know so much about the history and I walked by that trophy case everyday with all of the championships in it along with a 4xMile National winning baton. But I put my name out here with it, so you know where i'm coming from. Try it some time.
--ForrestCRN
There's almost 200 AAA schools with an average male enrollment of about 650. The two CR schools are at 750+ each. There hasn't been too much change over the last 12 years except for the huge impact of the addition of LaSalle and O'hara and then WCH losing about 300-400 to a new W Chester school.
DeleteThe odds of any school winning 4 of 12 championships is incredibly long, and getting there 10 of 12 even longer. Yet with an enrollment of about 450 they're in the running every year. Henderson started being a dynasty about 12 years ago.
To that point how long does a Dynasty last? CR/CRN has made states every year since 1985 every year other than 2005 when Keith Capecci finished second in the state, 4th in the region, and 21st in the nation. So Has CR/CRN been a Dynasty for that long?
DeleteAs for NA here are there stats over the last few years:
2012-4th
11-3rd
10-1st
09-2nd
08-2nd
08-3rd
07-3rd
06-5th
That's a dynasty, placing top 5 8 years in a row. Top 3 6 years in a row. Way more of a dynasty than Henderson is right now.
Constancy of being great is different than constancy of being the best. That's what NA has been doing and get no recognition.
Again, for largeness of schools, when you show up to meets, Henderson's team is larger than almost any other PA team, why? because of a culture of running there. CR is extremely anti-running, and for example we had a FR run 2:05 last year with only outdoor training. He quit and plays football because his dad thinks running is stupid and won't let his son do it. This happens to kids throughout PA at many different schools, no just CRN (just using it as a specific example). So when you have a culture of running at a school it does far more for the team than just having pure #s.
--ForrestCRN
Henderson is not a dynasty, yet. They have a solid program. To be a dynasty, you have to win at least 4 of 5 or 8 of 10 and/or win a couple of National Chamionships. 4 of 12 is very good, but not great. To call NA a dynasty for having 1 win in 8 years is a joke. They are a WPIAL dynasty, but just a very good team on the State lavel. I'm sure that Coach Marrington would be killing you for calling the current CRN team a dynasty. Just qualifying for States does not a dynasty make. I think the last time they finished in the top 2 was 2002. North Penn was on its way with 3 in 5 years, but then fell off pretty badly. The impressive thing about Henderson is that they've done it with completely different groups and they have a lot of kids still running in college.
DeleteThere's plenty to be said about the running culture on a team. Too many coaches don't really care. That's why it's always the same programs at the top, their coaches are into it and the runners believe in the program. NP, WCH, CRN, NA, O'hara, LaSalle, and few others, they're pretty much always there each year.
DeleteIf we score the top five team finishers at states since 2000, giving 5 points for first down to 1 point for 5th, WCH kills it with,
WCH - 34
NA - 21
NP - 15
CRN - 14
As far as dynasty goes, it's really all about the wins, just like the Super Bowl or World Series. WCH has 4 since 2000. NP has 3 in the last 6 years. Nobody else is even in the current dynasty coversation.
Oh goodness, I am in no way calling the current CRN team a dynasty! I was attempting to point out the flaw in his argument when he said that Henderson has made states 11 of 12 years as a dynasty, saying that just because CR/CRN has made it so many times in a row, does NOT make them a Dynasty. CRN is an extremely consistent program. And what does top 5 team finishers mean? You can say all kinds of things with # of medalists, # of individuals who scored under 50 pts team scoring (shows depth over time). I'm just trying to point out there are many ways to call a team a dynasty.
DeleteConsistently top 3 for 6 years straight I think says more than 4 championships in 12 years, but I do understand why you don't see it as a Dynasty.
Medalist Count for the past 10 years. Hopefully didn't miss anyone.
DeleteNA (9)– Zemet, Appman (T), Steiner, Gil, Jacob, Taylor, Brown, Morgan, Robertson
CRN (10) – Wilson, Zingarini, Campbell, Wallace, Capecci, Pomerantz, Mahoney, Davis, Hewins, Polumbo
LaSalle (4) – Coyle, Stone, Trainer, O’Kane
NH (5) – Hebda, Kush, Silenieks, Eddy, Fitzgerald,
NP (5) – Macauley, Miles, Bernitt, Montijo, Doyle,
WCH (12) – Barchet, Russell, Rimkis, Andrews, Kellar, Aldrich, Ferry, Jervis, McGoldrick, Gottesfeld, Alexander, Williams,
HH (7) – Quinn, Hibbs (S), Hopper, Hoagland, Hibbs (D), Hibbs (J), Kenny,
Altoona (4) – Mountain, Replogle, Endress, Fischer
--ForrestCRN (sorry for not signing the last post, I forgot)
I missed Hart from HH so they have 8.
DeleteCoatesville (8) – Mahoney, Rosato, Dawson (K), Panulla, Dawson (O), Ward, Leonard, Garnett.
--ForrestCRN
Ohara (4) - Garrity, Savage, James, Pitone
DeleteAlso Ohara and Lasalle have only been in the PIAA for five full years of XC now so there are great teams from 2000-2007 from those teams who didn't get a chance to run for a team championship or individual medalists.
No one cares wether their school is a "dynasty" or not. No need to bring everyone down, it's high school cross country and track.... Give it a rest. I can tell you for a fact not a single member of the current CRN, Henderson, O'Hara or any other team mentioned cares.
DeleteAmen to that.
Deleteand those schools are named because of their performance on a national level, not state level. CBA won NJ States without like their top 6 or something, that is straight skill. I will not be commenting again on this, I just praised Henderson and now I feel like I'm taking that away. So... back to track...
ReplyDeleteChesmonts will be a solid meet. I think that will be the deciding factor on what some people will run. Henderson boys will probably go in the 1600 with about 3 people (Russell, Barchet, Collins) breaking 4:20 if they run hot. Crump and Diestelow in there trying to lower their district seed in the 1600. Wolffe in there as well, with probably Willig, Zatlin, and Doran. Steadman just made districts in the 3200 so he'll probably be there for a tune up race. Lastly, Rimkis to try and make districts. He won't be in the 3200 more than likely so this is his way to get to districts.
The 800 should be pretty sweet with Markle, Leidal (I think), Stratman, Yannacone, Caldwell, Jones, Moy, and maybe Mucha? Some of them just ran the 800 at Henderson, but it's not like the 3200, the more you run it the better you get a feel for the race. I want to go with Moy to win, but Yannacone is the district champ and after the henderson meet he's clearly not going for the 1600 at States.
The only runners that will be running the 3200 will be the ones that were close, but didn't quite make it. I can't imagine this race being too fast. Probably one breakout running around 9:40. I don't think any relays will be hot. DTE has been known to go HARD at Chesmonts (mostly the girls, but the boys have too sometimes).
-RTJ
Why is anyone bringing up NJ schools? This blog is about PA distance running. WCH clearly meets the definition of dynasty for PA distance running teams over the last 15 years.
DeleteHistorically, Henderson seems to produce talented athletes more than any other team. Let's just take all the years that Kevin kelly has been coaching, they win xc states in 2002 and 2003, with an individual win in 2002 and he came back and got second in 2003, 2006 they got 2nd to coatesville, 2009 henderson got team gold and Keller won the 1600 at outdoor states, they then place second in 2010 at xc states, this is Russell and bachet's freshman year, they were on the varsity team then I believe, 2011 was a developing year for the varsity team of sophomores who placed 5th with 1 senior on the team and barchet injured, then in 2012..... well, we all know what happened, they pull the upset at states, Russell with a course record as a junior, him and barchet go 1 and 2 at nxn regionals and save their team because people had bad races, then indoors they killed it. Russell 2nd in the mile, beat the state record (in a split I know) and they placed 2nd in the 4xmile. Oh yeah, they're not a recruiting, or in less harsh words, "privledged" private school who can pull athletes from all over.... cough cough.... cba. I'm sure Henderson had more state winners and tope 3 finishes that I missed but we get the point, I'd like to see someone argue that their was a more successful dynasty in the past 15 years
DeleteHenderson won't stack the 1600 at Chesmonts. They're all about districts and states. They have no shot at beating Coatesville for the Chesmont title and all of their guys are qualified for their district races, so they don't need to go all out just 5 days after their big Invite and one week before districts. They'll probably put their big guns in the 4x800, maybe the 800, and give their other guys legitimate shots at medals in the 1600/3200. And they're a dynasty.
DeleteCan I try to put this to rest by saying, the kids create the dynasty. Not coaches or recruiting. Henderson and other top distance programs are so good and deep because these kids are working out and running with some of the states best on their on team. It just takes a couple of years of kids that aren't motivated to work with their teammates for the team to drop to mediocrity. The best thing a coach can do is fuel that in their team.
DeleteOn the private school front, you do realize that it is against PIAA rules to recruit? Not saying it doesn't happen because it does but these kids who go to private schools and their families sacrifice a lot to go there. These schools can't give money to the kids. I say if they want to pay to be at a high school, for any reason, let them.
Back to Track!
Other than Henderson, Delcos an Baldwin were really fast. Catholics will be smoking in distance with lasalle, ohara, and McDermott. WPIAL is looking better than last year with the Martins leading way.
It's naïve to think that recruiting doesn't happen and that school choices aren't influenced by sports-even at the high school level. Public schools are further handicapped by geographic boundaries, unlike private, charter or parochial. In the case of Henderson, what stands out is not just the fact that it's a public school, but a small one at that.
DeleteI'm not saying O'Hara recruits. I have a lot of respect for them. CBA definitely does, they've been exposed as recruiters in all of their other sports. Especially basketball
DeleteZaza went to 3 different public schools. No one said anything about that. Not saying he was recruited because he wasn't to my knowledge. I am just pointing out it is possible to go to a diffierent public school within your range. Again not saying Henderson does this because again to my knowledge they haven't. If he can do it others can.
DeletePCL teams usually recieve kids from the CYO(gradeschool) program. They start running at a young age and develop a desire to compete, usually enrolling in a catholic league school, but i can tell you that is clearly not recruiting.
DeleteAny league previews gonna be up? WPIAL's and Chesmonts should be very quick.
ReplyDeleteThe qualifiers for the WPIAL meet are this week. The Northern WPIAL qualifier should be deep. It could take a sub-4:28 or a sub-9:40 (top 8 goes) to make it to the WPIAL championship in the 1600 or 3200. Southern WPIAL definitely weaker
DeleteHas anyone seen of or heard from Pondel.. after XC season he should be right up there sub 9:10? Is he injured?
ReplyDelete