Kyle Adams- 1:58.93
Will Cather- 1:56.81
EE 2 Mile
Sami Aziz- 9:20.31
Lyle Wistar- 9:26.95
EE SMR
HGPrep 3:40.95
DMR
DTW 10:38.91
Pennsbury 10:22 (3:11/49/2:00/4:21 unofficially)
Strath Haven 10:29
O'Hara 10:13.13 5th (3:08/51/1:56/4:16 unofficially)
5k
Max Norris 2nd 14:55.41 (27-28 close)
Brendan Shearn 15:25.56
4xMile
CRN 17:40.38 (Zingarini 4:19.9 unofficially)
WCH 17:23 2nd (Russell 4:09ish anchor almost pulled out the win, but faded on the final straight)
O'Hara 17:25 3rd (James sub 4:20, Pitone around 4:24, Savage and Belfatto around 4:20)
I'll post up here the splits from Delta Timing, not sure if they are perfect but they seem at least reasonable for most races compared to my timing from watching the video and I'm sure I'm off. Some of the other ones from milesplit seem a little funky. The SMR ones are the ones I am least comfortable with what Delta Timing says, but hey its the best I got. If you have hand time splits from coaches post them up as a point of reference. Also in many cases the order Delta Timing lists is wrong so just kinda ignore that. In the 4xMile I'm almost 100% positive the lead off splits are off. I'm not sure which other splits those effect, but I know James did not split 4:25, he was likely under 4:20.
DMR
5 Dtown West Tc-Pa 'A' 10:38.61
1) Joey Steadman 13 2) Leon Williams 14
3) Ryan Markle 13 4) Ken Leidal 13
3:21.76 (3:21.76) 4:17.66 (55.90) 6:15.36 (1:57.70)
10:38.61 (4:23.25)
4 Pennsbury Tc-Pa 'A' 10:22.58 1) Connor Harriman 13 2) Charles Snorweah 15 3) Alek Sauer 15 4) Samuel Webb 15 3:11.11 (3:11.11) 4:01.21 (50.10) 6:01.21 (2:00.00) 10:22.58 (4:21.37)7 Strath Haven Tc-Pa 'A' 10:29.50 1) Dylan Butera 14 2) Paul Somaru 15 3) Greg Kotchick 15 4) Jack Huemmler 13 3:14.01 (3:14.01) 4:06.51 (52.50) 6:08.41 (2:01.90) 10:29.50 (4:21.09)4 Cardinal O'Hara T+F Club- 'A' 10:13.13 1) Kevin James 15 2) Jimmy Boyle 13 3) Jim Belfatto 14 4) Dan Savage 13 3:09.26 (3:09.26) 4:00.26 (51.00) 5:56.16 (1:55.90)10:13.13 (4:16.97)SMR EE3 Germantown Friends Tc-Pa 'A' 3:43.691) Jeremy Wright 13 2) Dean Whitaker 16 3) Jonathan Bailey 13 4) James Finney 1445.59 (45.59) 1:39.29 (53.70) 3:43.69 (2:04.40)5 Chestnut Hill Acad Tc-Pa 'A' 3:46.21 1) Mac Concannon 13 2) Pat Feighery 14 3) Jamil Poole 13 4) Graham Allen 1447.03 (47.03) 1:41.03 (54.00) 3:46.21 (2:05.18)14 Holy Ghost Alumni Tc-Pa 'A' 3:40.95 4 1) Bradford Detrick 15 2) Kevin Feeney 13 3) Brandon Davis 14 4) Christian Kardish 1444.61 (44.61) 1:37.31 (52.70) 3:40.95 (2:03.64)4xMile1 Council Rock North Tc-Pa 'A' 17:40.38 1) Mac Emery 13 2) Ross Wilson 14 3) Rob Simmons 14 4) James Zingarini 13 4:28.42 (4:28.42) 8:59.42 (4:31.00) 13:22.12 (4:22.70)17:40.38 (4:18.26) 10 Warrior Tc-Pa 'B' 18:22.701) Robert Miller 13 2) Kevin Moy 14 3) Eric Stratman 14 4) Steven Thompson 14 4:41.70 (4:41.70) 9:11.50 (4:29.80) 13:40.30 (4:28.80)18:22.70 (4:42.40) 2 Warrior Tc-Pa 'A' 17:23.431) AJ Chaborek 13 2) Reiny Barchet 14 3) Seamus Collins 14 4) Tony Russell 14 4:31.35 (4:31.35) 8:51.15 (4:19.80) 13:12.85 (4:21.70)17:23.44 (4:10.59) 3 Cardinal O'Hara T+F Club- 'A' 17:25.281) Kevin James 15 2) Dan Savage 13 3) Ernie Pitone 13 4) Jim Belfatto 14 4:25.75 (4:25.75) 8:46.55 (4:20.80) 13:05.95 (4:19.40)17:25.28 (4:19.33)
Impressive by Ohara, great split for the anchor leg. I assume it was Savage. What did Lasalle's DMR split at states?
ReplyDeleteNorris-14:55-2nd-28 lasr 200.
ReplyDeleteNice work Max! Who won chesrek? How'd shearn do?
DeleteA sophomore surprised Max in the last 50 with a bigger kick than Max- 14:54.27 Elijah Armstrong ... set the Sophomore class record (although the freshman class record is 14:18 so it loses a touch of value)
DeleteNorris and Shearn 5k Video Link:
Deletehttp://usa.milesplit.com/meets/126490/results/235370
I believe it was:
ReplyDeleteStone- 3:08
400 leg- 51.
Magee- 1:55
Coyle- 4:23
This is shaping up to be a awesome race between many of the A teams at Penn
Yeah, DMR at Penn should be awesome
ReplyDeleteWill 10:20 get CRN and SH in? (if SH chooses to run it)
Going to be an awesome race, hopefully Coyle and the LaSalle squad will be fresh and ready to roll like last year
Fantastic Anchor by Russell, even though he seemingly gave up once getting passed in the last 25. About 3:05 at 1200 for him
Gave up? He closed a 80 meter gap. That's just too much. Giving up is not what he did.
Deletethe post above says "he seemingly gave up once getting passed in the last 25". that is what i saw and what i imagine most people saw.
Deletehe also said "fantastic anchor by russell". That was what i saw and i imagine most people saw. He ran great to close the gap, he ran the fastest indoor mile in state history (albeit in a split) and he earned the right to walk it in the last 25. but he walked it in the last 25.
i'd be surprised if SH and CRN couldn't get in with those marks, normally if u are under 10:30 u got a decent shot of getting in, under 10:20 most years you are a lock to get in
ReplyDeleterussell straight up killed that anchor leg even tho that last 25 meters was a little disappointing, but, like norris, he was just completely gased and gave up but still ran an absurd time ... i just hope he doesn't make it a habit (thinking 3k at states) but hey, the guy runs way faster than i have ever run so i can't say anything
it makes me wonder how states could have been different if he pushed from the gun .. maybe would have been too much of a push and he would have faded badly, maybe he would have run 4:12 and challenged the meet record
crn got screwed in that slow heat but zingarini is running great, in a fast race the guy is 4:15 this year guarenteed, he can do a lot more if things click
o'hara meanwhile is running great! 2 amazing relays already this weekend and the 4x8 tonight! I hope K James is on the squad.
I gotta say I love watching these sophomores run. Kevin James has clearly been a breakout star this weekend running a pair of great, tough lead off legs already. And Sam Webb has run ballsy as well, he is a really gutsy runner and one of my personal favorites to watch. Hoping for a big 4x8 for him tonight.
Am I not allowed to be biased like that? Eh screw it, let's face it, i'm pretty biased.
Still with the giving up stuff. He tried to keep him off. He had to run 10 seconds faster than CBA to get to the front. He's not a kicker and he still finished fast. They handed off from 3rd to last after the first leg and the middle legs did will to get him into 3rd but the top 2 teams had over 70 meters on him. Giving up would be to not try to chase the front pack and settle for 3rd. Norris did well but got outkicked, it was a pretty unimpressive race with the time being so slow. Why isn't anyone saying he gave up? They both ran phenomenal but give credit where it's due. Neither Norris or Russell gave up. How much can you ask of someone? He's junior in high school and Russell's performance in the 4xmile was the most impressive achievement a pa distance runner has done in a long time.
Deletei mentioned norris in most post, they both are guilty of the same thing
Deletei'm not knocking his race, he ran til he couldn't run anymore and frankly norris's race was more shocking bc he looked around after he got blown by and knew he got beat at his own game and then just tried to get in but kinda gave up
here's the deal, it's incredibly demoralizing to get blown by on the final straight away especially when you A) went out a bit over your head in a herculean attempt to get your team back into it (Russell) or B) thought you had it won and someone came from nowhere to surprise you (Norris)
i've watched a lot of quality guys not run through the line, it happens, your tired, your running at an amazingly fast level, its hard to get through the line
but in my own personal opinion, you gotta run through the line every time, it may not come back to hurt you in one instance but i know for a fact it screwed over plenty of ppl in the past, think about Erin Finn and Wesley Frazier, that's the difference between a national record and a nation championship, just .01 seconds of running through the line
i said it above and i will say it again, I am in no way as good of a runner as tony or max and i certainly have never been in their shoes at the end of their races
it's just my own opinion and montra that you gotta run through the line, knock me all you want but i will not back down from my opinion on this
Im pretty sure Russell closed sub 30 for the last lap. There's a difference between giving up on a kick and just losing to someone who had a better kick. That's like saying Russell could have won if he just ran a little faster. Or O'Hara could've won if they just ran a little faster. There is a point where you cant go any faster and I think Russell reached that point. And russell didnt go out insanely and die because his first and last 400's were the same. You're right, they are much better, part of that is because they know how to race better than you can. Its easy to nit pick stuff from the sideline that someone could do better, it's a whole different thing to be able to go out there and do it. Your opinions are usually on point backed up by fact and logical, but what your saying now is utterly false. What happened isnt based on opinion, Russell had a really fast last lap. The other guy had it easier because he put out an effort that was 10 seconds easier. And to a post above, in what way did he walk the last 25? I don't care how you qualify yourself for saying that because if you actually watched the race you'd see that he stayed fast and he tried as hard as he could to hold off CBA. Etrain, comment saying sam webb is one of your favorite runners to watch. The kid runs 3:11 for a 1200, I'm sorry but what? How is that exciting? If we're going to criticize Norris and russell then I guess all are open. Guess who else did that as a sophomore (Russell). Defend your opinions, but I'm surprised you capitalize on the 1 thing that tainted Russell's race and not how great he ran. Its amazing how you can criticize the best performance from a pa guy without going into detail about anyone else besides Norris. Now watch me get shut down because I'm going against etrain's argument, just like anyone else who attempts to disagree with you on this blog.
DeletePeople are not my favorite runners because of the times they run but they way they run the race. Sam Webb ran 4:21 for the 1600, Harriman ran the lead off leg. It's not all about the fastest times and gold medals to me. That is how you decide who is best, not who is your favorite. Please correct me if I am wrong. I stand by what I said about Sam Webb for sure and I don't think anonymously slashing his achievements is very fair to him.
Deletei have been wrong more often than not and I do not shut down people when they disagree with me. I do, however, mind when people misrepresent what I am trying to say. I don't think Russell could have won that race, he did everything he could to put Henderson back in the race and he absolutely carried them to that time. Without his performance we wouldn't even be talking about them. But he didn't run all the way through the line, I pointed it out and that is a fact. Yes it was because he was very tired and he wasn't going to win by running through the line and he ran really fast and on and on and on it goes. But one day there is going to be a guy hawking him down and if he doesn't run through the line he will get beat. That I have seen and I have evidence for in the past and I can cite examples if you'd like. That is an opinion backed up fact and logic.
As for my own racing, I am not sure if you have ever seen me run a race because I have no idea who you are, but I don't think I can't run a 4:10 because I don't know how to race. Sure I've had my fair share of bad races and bad tactical displays but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is the case for most people. I'm not as fast as them, that's fact I will never deny that, but I would prefer if we left personal attacks on my own "racing ability" out of this conversation, unless you would like to tell me who you are and give your own fact and logic to back up your statement.
Thanks
Etrain is not out to get anyone. He runs this blog because he loves track. Why would he bash on high school students as a collegiate athlete? He has remained humble since the beginning, and admitted on numerous accounts that he was never as good as the runners frequently mentioned on this blog. All he did was express his opinions on the race in a logical manner. Etrain was actually praising them, stating that he felt as if they had the ability to run even faster had they pushed it a little bit more. Constructive criticism does not warrant personal attacks on another man's character.
DeleteIn my opinion, Russell's being gassed in the states 3K had everything to do with running in the mile first followed the fast pace needed to win the 3K against fresh legs. We talked beforehand about the risk of that double, especially considering the field being so deep. It's pretty easy to say so now with hindsight, who who knew Norris could make that kind of a drop. Russell is still learning what he can do and how to race with the best as he's climbed to national class over the last seven months.
DeleteI haven't seen the video from today but if the guy split 4:10ish, a 3-4 second PR, brought his team from the back for a legitimate shot at the championship, I'm not gonna question his tactics.
-RJJL
I just watched the video and if my numbers are close to correct I’ve got Russell at 2:04 then 32/32/31/31 or so. That’s a heck of a race and an incredibly consistent pace. I don’t know how anyone can say anything that remotely criticizes that performance, no matter how it ends.
DeleteEtrain, your work is great here and your analysis is incredible. But on this one, I think you may have come off as a bit harsh and I know it wasn’t your intention because you’re always very positive. But you made it sound like anyone who doesn’t push to the line is a quitter or has no heart and is going to pay for that flaw at the finish line in the future. Sometimes the way a race goes you have to push early and that can leave you tapped at the end. Would it be better if a guy goes out slower, runs a 4:14 instead of 4:10 but comes in with a big kick through the line to look like the hero and finish 4th instead of 2nd? Then would he be considered ballsy instead of questioned?
What I saw was Russell run an unbelievable race at Nationals, remarkably make up an 8 second difference in 6 laps, against the anchors of the best teams around, and then break off with about 12 meters to go when he had practically nothing left and knew he was beat. An incredible effort and certainly no shame in any part of that.
-RJJL
ps, great PR splits by Barchet and Collins. Chaborek ran well too as he rounds back to top form.
I think you're missing my point. It isn't about the race strategy at all. I've seen guys with big kicks not run through the line as well (my old teammate Mike Palmisano was a notorious kicker but also had a knack for not running through the line, cost him states his sophomore year in the 8 and cost his 4x8 a sub 7:40 his senior year). It's 5 extra steps and in some cases it's the difference in winning or losing a race, in others it's the difference between 4:09 and 4:10. If you told Tony if he ran through the line he could of run 4:09 if he ran through the line I guarantee you he'd wish he had gone back and done it differently. And quite frankly that might have been the difference. Maybe that was truly all he had and he literally couldn't go anymore at that point, but looking back I think we always think that we could have done a bit more, done something differently, and that's a clear thing to point to.
DeleteI had a race this past year where I ran 4:10.04 in the 1500 last year and I'd give anything to start my kick earlier or push in the middle differently or even drive harder to the line and be under the barrier but I can't and who knows I may not ever get a shot at it again. I regret not making the most of my opportunity.
This isn't about me criticizing a guy for wimping out. Please. That's not the case here, he ran his heart out and he gave it his best shot at 1st place. I have the utmost respect for Tony Russell and I hope he realizes that (I picked the man to win states in the mile this year and he was the state and regional champ in XC I mean c'mon the dude is amazing). This is about me pointing out something that can help. Yes, he's only a Junior in HS, but that means he has time to learn from this and use it the next time he races.
As I get older and look back on my running career, and I imagine you will be the same way, you will want to have minimized your regrets. Trust me. And if pushing the extra tiny bit at the end of the race can get you it, whether you are a 4:00 flat miler or a 6:00 flat miler you will wish you had done it. I guarantee it.
Anyway that's all I have to say on this subject. I will not comment any further on it. Congrats to Tony and the Henderson boys on a fantastic race.
Goodnight all
I don’t think your point was missed. You’re pretty clear saying a runner should make it a habit to push through to the finish line every time or he’s gonna get beat at the line someday and regret not always doing so. That lesson is instilled in every runner by every coach from the day they first step on a track. It’s like a baseball coach telling a hitter to only swing at strikes. It sounds reasonable, even easy, but reality is different and at just about every meet you’ll see guys at every level let up at the line.
DeleteSometimes you’ve just given your all throughout the whole race and you’re passed in the last stretch when your body is totally spent and you just can’t will yourself anymore. When anyone take 3 or 4 seconds off of their mile PR, which is very difficult to do in the sub 4:20 range, and puts his team back in the race with a chance to win against the best, I’m gonna give the guy the benefit of any doubt and say he gave everything in that race and there is no lesson to be learned this time.
We'll just disagree on this one.
-RJJL
I think "giving up" and having enough lactic acid buildup in your legs that you can't run any faster and just waddle to the finish line are two different things.
DeleteIf you watch the race, you can clearly see that he gives up knowing that he isn't going to win. He did everything he could to win that race and he ran unbelievable, and in my opinion a pretty smart race. Not sure if he should have taken the lead and continued pushing (in college races like the DMR when the anchor catches up they sit in with the pack, regain composure and kick). I'm sure Russell felt his best shot was continued pushing and wanted to give his team the best chance to win. Major credit for him in that race. Very gutsy, ect. but always,always finish through the line. He saw he was getting passed and didn't have it in him to hold the guy off and he packed it in.
DeleteGreat race by Russell-no doubt. He did look like he was done though with about 5-6 more steps left untill the line. Live and learn. Hendersons B team looks like it had 2 guys who could have slid into that A relay for Chaborek. Not a knock on chaborek-coming back from illness/injury is tough. He impressed at States & will surely be 100% by the time outdoors opens.
DeleteTo be fair, I'm not sure if that Chaborek split is 100% accurate, I'm almost positive Kevin James's split is off, so that makes me think Chaborek's might be off as well. Russell is the hero of the relay, but, correct me if I'm wrong, that would be a big PR for Collins, great race for him. And if the splits are right a huge PR for Barchet as well. Great run, maybe somebody in the Henderson or O'Hara camp can confirm or deny the splits listed?
DeleteOhara split were James: 4:20.8 pitone: 4:22.9 savage: 4:20.1 belfatto:4:21.1
DeleteSemms the times of the 1st legs of the relays were high. Were they officially from NB? Chip in baton times?
DeleteThe times posted were all off. Henderson splits were Chaborek-4:27.0, Barchet-4:20.6, Collins-4:24.0, Russell-4:11.5. Tony-helluva race. He's just got to get a little stronger and develop the right mentality to win a track race. It looked like he hesitated when he caught the pack instead of making a bold move. He'll learn and he's young, but how many chances do you get to win a National Championship. Still, the same 4 guys ran 39 seconds faster then they ran last year in that race.
DeleteAs far as Webb, his times are almost identical to tony's from last year(his Xc place is better). It will be fun to see him improve at that same rate.
This had to be the best year ever for PA at Indoor Nationals. Great job by everyone. Outdoors should be sick. Hoepfully, we get a National Champion.
BTW, will Henderson get into Penn with a 10:22. It looks like a really deep year in the DMR.
10:22 usually is plenty fast to get in but admittedly it is a deep year ... I would bet they get in but I'm not 100%. I trust Kevin Kelly's judgement on this. I was worried about Russell not getting in the fast heat at states in the mile but they waited and he was fine, comfortably made it through. I expect it may be the same case here. If not they have the pieces to run fast early in the right race.
DeleteLast year HGP was left on the DMR cutting room floor of Penn Relays after finishing 2nd at Indoor States - its all about the other teams that apply and no way of knowing - don't sit back and assume any time will get in - find a race (PA Track Classic; Colonial RelaYS) and lower it if thats the goal
DeleteNorris says it himself in his interview. Lesson learned. He never saw the kid coming and didn't think anyone was close to him. The mistake was made before the "run through the line" meters, but the "run through the line" mantra is absolute gospel.
ReplyDeleteBen Ritz with a 4:14, hell of a race for him.
ReplyDeleteDo you think there's a disadvantage for Webb who started off amazing in middle school and is improving at a much slower rate than what Russell did? Webb ran a 4:31 in 8th grade right? And Russell was in the 4:50s in 8th grade. Or does a fast time like that early on help him?
ReplyDelete