The AAA boys 3200m is a race that I am really excited to see results for. In my opinion the race is incredibly up for grabs although Norris has to be the favorite for his big time performances in the past. At districts, I definitely wouldn't say Norris looked comfortable, but I also don't think he went into that race trying to do anything more than get the state qualifying time.
I thought about how so many people really focus their energy on saving for the state championships and I decided to do a little check back at the state champions the last few years in the 32. Last year it was Sam Hibbs who dominated the district one championship and ran a then PR mark. Before him Glenn Burkhardt did essentially the same thing dominating the D1 championship. Neither of those guys felt the need to save anything and won their races by convincing margins. Before Burkhardt you had Fischer, who was second at D1 and outkicked by his teammate Burkhardt, but the two pushed the pace the whole way. Tarsnane won before then, he ran hard at districts while Furcht saved himself for states, but Tarsnane still won both. Dennin won the year before that winning both the district one title and the state title with PR marks back to back weeks.
So really in my opinion the whole saving yourself thing is overrated. The cream rises to the top. So, therefore, in my mind everyone is on even footing this week whether they saved up or not. So does that mean I should go Ross Wilson for state champion?
Sorry man, I can't go that bold. I can't believe this guy has dominated as much as he had racing 32 after 32. He looked the most comfortable out of any guy I saw in the D1 race if I'm being perfectly honest. But my head says all those hard 32s back to back to back to back to back will finally add up. Doesn't mean he can't jump up and snag a medal, but I don't think he will win.
I go back and forth on who I will pick to win this race. There are a lot of guys that I think could, here is my list: Norris, Wilson, Kennedy, Martin, Todaro and James. If anyone else one, I'd be surprised, although it certainly could happen considering the quality of this field.
In order to pick between this group I had to consider how the race itself would play out. I don't anticipate things being incredibly fast from the gun, but I do hope that some combination of Groh, Wilson, James, Quinn and whichever other front runners are out there keep this thing honest. I can't help but compare this race in many ways to the 3200m I saw back in 2009 at Shippensburg. Ben Furcht, Bobby Micikas and Jimmy Tarsnane were the top 3 in the race. Micikas had won Penn Relays and Indoor states by outkicking the field that included Ben Furcht who was runner up both times. Furcht didn't have the wheels to win in a kicker's race so he hammered the whole way on the second mile to try and suck the kick out of Micikas. It worked and Micikas just didn't have it that day, but Tarsnane did. He surprised Furcht with about a 60 second last lap and took a surprise gold despite a gutsy run by Ben.
For some reason I equate Norris to Micikas. Norris is a bit more accomplished in both XC and the 1600 so it isn't a completely reasonable comparison but it's the one I jump to when trying to pick this state championship winner. It might be stupid of me, but I'm picking against Norris in this one.
As mentioned above I have my doubts about Wilson as well, so leaving him out of the conversation that leaves James, Todaro, Kennedy and Martin in my possible winner's circle. Man, this is a tough one. I am a huge fan of James but I pick against him as well here. He is only a sophomore and he will have more chances at this event. This event is usually dominated by Seniors and it takes a truly special soph and a fairly week field to see something other than a senior victory. So I'm not going with James this year for the W.
Now I go back and forth with these 3 guys. Every time I visualize the race I see a new guy who would finish first out of the three of them. Kennedy and Martin have been so close every time that they have raced it's hard to imagine anything different. Martin is fresher now than he was when he beat Kennedy a week ago, but Kennedy has been gaining momentum all year since his injury. But so too has Vinny Todaro who dropped a huge 4:13 1600m a week ago to prove he has one of the top kicks in this field behind Norris. I suspect that this race will be one of the best the state has ever seen, not just in terms of depth, but in terms of competition for the win. So many guys have the potential, but only one guy can wear the gold around his neck.
Ultimately, it is hard to say this with any form of certainty, but I'm taking Vinny Todaro to take the gold medal in this race. I'm a huge fan of Martin and Kennedy here so if one of those two wins I'll regret not going with my gut. And as for Norris, I think if the race is run 10 times he would probably win about 7 and if I was give 5 bucks to bet on anybody it would be Max. Sometimes you just get a feeling and you got to jump on it and that's what I'm doing today.
But this race is far from just being about gold. The race for the other medal spots should be equally compelling. Adam Bodine has made big strides in the past couple weeks and dropped a 9:17 PR. Maybe he has taken the next step to grab a state medal. Sam Webb always sticks his nose in it as does Jeff Groh but both guys will be pulling double duty over the course of the weekend. NA has 3 guys in the race and Matt McGoey is my big sleeper pick here, but again, having the 4x8 to worry about complicates the odds that he has a breakout race. Dominic Deluca is a sub 9:20 man who has proven he can run fast in a talented field. Dan Savage is a very talented 3200m man who was one of the top finishers indoors in a very competitive 3k and can not be overlooked in this field despite the breakout of his younger teammate. Savage is just as likely as any to surprise for a top 5 finish. Will McDermott has a lot of momentum in his favor coming off a couple of close battles with Kevin James. Reiny Barchet is one of only two guys in the field who have run under 9:10 for 3200m this year. Clearly, he deserves a bit of respect. He also seems to alternate his big races, which means he is due for a big one here at states. And Conner Quinn is one of the few guys in this field who has a state championship. Not to mention the fact that he has an old teammate who has stepped up and won this race before. If anyone knows how to step it up in the post season it is Quinn. Plus you have to throw in Colin Martin into the equation. He is always close behind Ethan and Ethan is one of the top guys in this field.
Not to mention Ean Disilvio of Allerdice and Austin Pondel, the footlocker finalist are in this field seeded way down the list!
This race is incredibly deep and there are legitimately over 20 guys with realistic medal chances. But there can be only 8.
This was easily the toughest event for me to pick and if I predicted in 10 times we would have 10 very different predictions by me. Even now I go back and forth on every posistion for 1st to 21st. But ultimately I have to put something down and here is what I am going with. The times are if the weather is reasonable, I can't imagine the pace won't be fast.
1. Todaro 9:04
2. Norris 9:06
3. Martin 9:07
4. Kennedy 9:09
5. Martin 9:12
6. Wilson 9:13
7. James 9:13
8. Quinn 9:15
9. Savage 9:18
10. McGuoy 9:19
11. Groh 9:21
12. Barchet 9:21
13. McDermott 9:22
14. Deluca 9:23
15. Webb 9:25
16. Stratman 9:25
17. Bodine 9:26
18. Zemet 9:26
19. Pitone 9:28
20. Conrad-Kline 9:28
Man I still have some question marks about where to put some of these guys and I can't even list all the guys who can do damage. These are my picks, but man it's a toss up in a lot of places. Let me know what you think and predict away!
mac emery is winning the 3200
ReplyDeletemac emery's running the 1600, not the 32. I think you were a little confused
DeleteI know hes running the 1600, but during the xc season some guy kept posting that Mac Emery was winning states so I was making a joke/refrence to that.
DeleteTime is tough to call on this one. It's tough to know how hot or windy the conditions are going to be and especially how fast the race will be taken out. Or should I say how slowly it will be taken out...I definitely think it'll be tactical and I wouldn't be surprised to see a winning time at around 9:08ish. I do agree that the 4:13 from Todaro definitely influences my decision and gives him a better shot. Yet, I'm not gonna go for it.
ReplyDeleteI say it's Ethan Martin who wins it with Norris in 2nd. Ethan ran that 3200 against Kennedy after coming off of a 4:16 mile? (I could be wrong on the time). That's impressive and Martin has had all the race experience he needs for this. If the race really is as tactical as I think it will be, guys who are all out strength runners like Quinn, Barchet, and James won't be quite as high. But talent is talent and I say that 2 of those 3 get a medal. I say Martin wins it in 9:07.
1. E. Martin
2. Norris
3. Todaro
4. Wilson
5. Kennedy
6. Deluca
7. Barchet
8. James
9. C. Martin
10. Savage
11. Quinn
12. Bodine
13. McDermott
14. McGuoy
15. Groh
Norris
ReplyDeleteI say with about 800 to go someone makes a move and the pack is James, Barchet, Norris, E. Martin, Wilson and Quinn. Coming down to a kick it's either Norris, Barchet or Wilson. All have enough strength to hold and a kick to win.
ReplyDeleteI take Martin with the win in a similar fashion to WPIALs, outkicks Norris in the last 150 or so
ReplyDelete1. E. Martin 9:00
2. Norris 9:01
3. Kennedy 9:05
4. Wilson 9:07
5. Todaro 9:08
6. C. Martin 9:10
7. Wilson 9:12
8. James 9:15
9. Quinn 9:16
10. Barchet 9:19
STOP TODARO
ReplyDeleteYeah, stop him!
DeleteCan't go against talent. Norris wins.
ReplyDeleteMax Norris is playing games.
ReplyDeleteI just don't feel that Norris can lose this race. The field is incredible, but he shat on the entirety of the Penn Relays field and this one is inarguably less deep. He has the fastest mile PR, even over Todaro, and he's been improving all season. The race is admirably stacked, especially in past years has seen distance focus on the mile moreso.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it'll be fast unless Norris wants it to be (as in fast, I mean sub 4:30 first mile) but it should take sub 9:10, even on a hot day, to win. Norris likely won't race to his potential UNLESS a sleeper steps their game up to his- this is entirely possible thru studs from the West as well as any number of D1 guys. That said, lots of D1 guys have lost head-to-head against Norris/at least Shearn, who in turn got handled by Norris at Penn.
The race for 9:08-9:17 medals will be fantastic, but as in all years 9:21 could medal 8th. Who knows? I'd LOVE to see it fast. I think 8 people can run under 9:10 in theory, but come race day it won't pan out like that.
On the AA side, Galassi is talented. So is Shearn. The real question is, is Shearn going to handle Galassi, or has Galassi been truly untested this season, resulting in an upset. I see Brendan winning it, but I predict that it will be won by over 3 seconds.
Prove me wrong! As a senior, this is likely the most exciting race I'll see while in high school- at least, it COULD be. Still would love to see all the distance studs (namely Huemmler/Coyle/Russell trio moving up) in a hot 3200. That's too much to ask- last year we didn't even see Ned v Magaha!
I dont see Huemmler being able to compete with these guys in a 3200
DeleteMax norris won't do well, I attend his high school at Harriton. He has been declared with mono he hasn't been feeling well these past 2 weeks. Just a heads up so i believe he won't have a good race and he hasn't not been looking very confident.
DeleteIIm calling BS...if he had been diagnosed with mono there's no way a doctor would have cleared him to run
Deletedid see how he did at the race? my point is proven he would of won if he was fully healthy i wouldn't make a lie about it
DeleteI’ve got to go with Norris on this one too. He really moved to a new level with his finish at indoor states 3K and he's been rolling since. I see Etrains point about Hibbs and Burkhardt however, it doesn’t sway me. I could see Norris backing off at districts before states/nationals after two hard races at Penn Relays and Henderson. His 4:12-1600 looked like he could have gone sub 4:10. I just can’t pick against him at 3200. He'll probably just trail the leaders as usual maybe pushing it with 600 to go and making a strong move with about 300.
ReplyDeleteAfter Norris, it’s a big guess, there’s just so much talent here. With all these guys with legit shots at medaling I’d expect a few to push the pace. Maybe 4:34 through 1600.
Norris – 9:07
Wilson – 9:09
Todaro – 9:11
James – 9:12
Bodine – 9:12
Webb – 9:13
McDermott – 9:13
Barchet – 9:15
-RJJL
Norris has been our dominant distance guy since XC and he got his Gold indoors in that 3k. Some people say he was saving for states, and I don’t doubt it, but he didn’t look great doing it. He and Todaro have the best 16 credentials out of the group so a kickers race benefits them, yet they have a group of really strong youngers behind them, all hungry for a state gold. Kennedy got beat by Russell at states, he’s got to want it. The Martin twins have had an unbelievable campaign this spring, Ethan grabbing double gold at districts. Wilson finally got his district gold and is now looking ahead towards states as well. Kevin James is our D12 Gold 32 winner and he too is looking for that state Gold, and he has been disappointed during XC twice now. I think the pace will be fast as these youngers know who is behind them with hungry kicks. Many of these guys, along with others have trials in the 16 or 4x8 the day before which may come to haunt them in the last 400m.
ReplyDeleteI have to believe this pace will be fast as well. I’m always very optimistic of fast races and seeing the true potential in these guys. If it isn’t fast early I expect to see a sub 4:28 last mile from a few guys and sub 9:10 from at least 5 people.
If it ends up being hot (as of right now the forecast says light showers and 74 degrees on Friday. Partially cloudy and 68 on Saturday, which sets up really nicely for distance races), than guys like Kennedy, Martin, and Todaro won’t want as fast a pace since they should have other events later. If one of them doesn’t make finals look for them to be out for blood. I think James and Wilson will have work to do up front if they want it fast, but in the end I think they go out in 2:20 still and begin to ratchet it down, 2:16, 2:15, and a 2:12 finish. In the end I think James will do too much work up front, but will pull everyone to a fast time and allow Kennedy to win his first state gold.
1. Kennedy- 9:04.93
2. Norris – 9:05.32
3. Wilson – 9:05.47
4. Savage – 9:07.25
5. E Martin – 9:07.56
6. Barchet – 9:07.59
7. James – 9:08.98
8. Quinn 9:09.82 (yes, this is what Hibbs ran last year)
Norris can hold onto just about any pace, but I think his time has run out as the unbeatable PA guy. You may ask where is Todaro: Well, both of his times are from 60 last laps. I don’t think he’ll have the ability to do so here, and the pace will be too quick and his pace won’t be there to handle it.
If I were to give a % for winning Norris would be around 60%, Wilson at 20%, Martin 10%, Kennedy 5%, Savage 1%, James 2%, Field 2%.
--ForrestCRN
Neither of the Martins are doubling. Kennedy does have a 4x8,
DeleteEtrain pointed out very well, Austin Pondel is in the race and even though he has been in visible the past 6 months.. he still is a Footlocker Finalist. He may run for time or place but may try controlling it for a bit like XC. He is probably capable of sub 9:20
ReplyDeleteI'll be honest, I can't see Pondel going faster than like 9:32 or so, he has barely raced at all this year and I can't see him hanging with those guys.
DeleteAgreed. I saw him race early in the season (not the greatest indicator) and a 4:30-4:35 1600 looked pretty straining on him
DeleteWait etrain. Webb ran a 9:19 off of a modest pace at districts. His PR is only one second off of the other sophomore Kevin James. Why do you think he could only manage a 9:25? He could easily have a great day and run a 9:10. Even if he runs around his PR of 9:14 or 9:19 he should be in contention for a medal.
ReplyDeleteHow do you have barchet ranked so low? He ran 9:08 at Henderson while he was still peaking for states. I think he wins it in 9:06
ReplyDeleteBarchet doesn't have the fire to win the big race.
ReplyDelete--ForrestCRN
I found your blog and enjoyed your insight into the competitors in this race. Martin, Wilson and Todaro were the top three and all runners you had listed as potential winners (though you were a bit down on Wilson-he must be a very tough runner to run as well as he did over such a prolonged period of time). It looked like it was an extremely talented field with several Foot Locker and NXN finalists a shame that the weather did not cooperate maybe next year as it seems many of the top finishers return.
ReplyDeleteGreat Blog.